Question: Are we taking the girl’s word for it? Because if I wanted to accuse someone of rape, it’s very easy to say that the boy didn’t ask for my consent. And being the victim, I would be believed. Also, let’s not forget that the girl was drunk off her ass, to put it crudely. Even if she had consented, would she even remember, assuming that she was too drunk to know what’s happening in the first place (having sex with a stranger proves this). Unless it can be proven that it was rape (and there are ways to do this of course), she has no right to accuse a guy of raping her just because she didn’t remember most of what happened.

Somehow, I disagree with such a flippant, all-encompassing statement. While it IS true, that women have a right to say no, one must also account for the responsibility that every person must play in a situation. There is no clear-cut answer, and applying an equation such as Rape = Woman_says_it_is doesn’t quite cut it.

For instance, a girl dresses up in a skimpy outfit or walks around stark naked at 3am. She imbibes on alcohol and engages in flirtations. She encourages the attention and initiates some fondling. The next morning, she wakes up next to a stranger and cries rape because she doesn’t fully recall what happened when she was high on alcohol. Many women will agree that it IS rape – because she cannot consent rationally when she is drunk. However, she for most part, sent out what I would term as “mating signals” to the opposite sex. The male partner did not misread her signals – she sent it loud and clear. The only problem is that she doesn’t remember giving consent. This is certainly a gray area, contrary to some arguments here that it still IS rape.

This is entirely different from a situation where a woman was attacked or forced. It is also different from a situation whereby a woman was out drinking with her friends, passed out and wakes up raped.

What I am trying to point out is this: Yes it is true that no woman asks to be physically violated. But to apply this and completely disregard her behaviour, which may be contrary to her own accusations, is irresponsible on the part of the commenter. These are the gray areas that I an trying to point out. Here, every situation (or case) should be assessed as it is – without prejudice towards the accused or the accuser and certainly without reference to other rhetorical cases that are immaterial to the current one. And certainly, the argument should more than just Rape = Woman_says_it_is. After all, every man (and woman) is innocent until proven guilty.

girl and boy get blackout drunk at mutual friend’s party. Have sex. They hang out the next day in a group, friendly. Five months later, girl hits heavy depression and as part of recovery process terms this rape. Confronts boy a few months later, he didn’t know/remember if they had had sex.

extraneous factors
girl and girl’s friend think they ingested some kind of drug with their alcohol that made them black-out harder and sooner
girl had never had sex before
girl was on her period
girl does not remember a four to five hour expanse of time, that apparently included meeting boy, dancing, making out, and going to an isolated location with boy.
girl does remember a blurry moment in time that indicates boy and girl had unprotected sex.

I would agree that alcohol creates gray areas. If I consent to sex while drunk, then I will stand by that decision sober. What if I can’t remember whether or not I consented? Given the particulars (first time, probable unknown drug interaction, menstruating, sense of disorientation) I lean towards I did not consent. I call it rape.
I did not report and I will not charge, I’m way too confused myself.
If a girl has less confusion about whether or not she consented, and can more confidently call it rape, then I think the appropriate action is to report it as such.

This is the problem with your argument. The writer of the article is arguing that it should count as consent if the girl is drunk. The girl chose to get drunk. She knew she might agree to something she would regret when she was sober. Why is it the boy’s fault if she chose to get drunk and as a result agreed to sex?

We seem to be assuming here that it is rape if a girl says it is okay to have sex. As far as I am aware, rape means forcing someone to have sex. I don’t see how anyone here was forced to have sex.

You might argue that it’s unfortunate that there is this culture that encourages people to drink, a culture potentially promulgated by boys, and that boys take advantage of this culture for free sex. I personally think that if rape really happens so often at the eating clubs, Princeton University should be held criminally accountable for having allowed the eating clubs to continue to existing up to this day. But people still have the choice not to drink. I don’t. I know lots of girls who don’t.

“However, getting drunk does not absolve one of responsibility for one’s actions nor does it render it impossible for a person to make decisions.”
True. But seeing how often people don’t recall what they did while drunk and seeing how…loose (in inhibitions) they are, “agreeing” to something like sex, doesn’t equal consent.

I will say, that if both people are drunk, you can’t really charge either one with rape. But if a sober person has sex with a drunk one, that is rape. The sober person should well know that being drunk makes people loose, silly, different from who they really are, and if they decide to take advantage of that and have sex with the drunk person, it is rape.

“That was the point of the Prince column. ”

As the column gives us such gems as: “She knew what would happen if she started drinking.” (No. She knew she would get drunk, she did not know someone would rape her.) and “Therefore, the girl willingly got herself into a state in which she could not act rationally.” (But that does not mean she did willingly gave her body up for anyone to use.) and “Why is the guy always to blame?” (Please. When has the guy ever been to blame? It’s certainly not the majority of the time.) and “We live in times when sexual discrimination has, more or less, disappeared from our society.” (Not true, not matter how far under a rock you crawl), I find it hard to believe the article was really about responsibility when drunk rather than more putting even more blame on rape victims.

If that was the intent of the article, it was wildly misused and very badly written.

Rapists rape because that is what they do. And if they think it’s easier to get away with this by raping drunk women, then that is what they will do. If someone respects someone else so little that they would have sex with them when the other person is not capable of making good and rational and sober decisions, it is rape, especially if the person would have said no when sober.

A sober person having sex with a drunk person is rape.